Do it For All Your Pubic Hairs- Facilitation Questions
1. Do you think nationality affects a mans pride? How does it affect their masculinity?
2. The way these children talk about puberty makes them view it as a right of passage into manhood, however, those who lack the "process" are made fun of, do you think this enables the kids to lie about going through puberty in order to be accepted by the other boys?
3. Many of the physical games that contribute to "toughness" can be seen throughout the decades, when I was in school I saw the boys play these games, and when I volunteer at after school programs in HS I still saw similar games being played, why do you think this is? Is the ability to with hold strength a social construct that we have passed on to new generations?
4. Why is it that the girls and teachers are so easy to rebuke the boys as "men" but once they reach their growth spurt they are now seen as adult males? Does it feed the notation that physicality has to do with masculinity?
2. The way these children talk about puberty makes them view it as a right of passage into manhood, however, those who lack the "process" are made fun of, do you think this enables the kids to lie about going through puberty in order to be accepted by the other boys?
3. Many of the physical games that contribute to "toughness" can be seen throughout the decades, when I was in school I saw the boys play these games, and when I volunteer at after school programs in HS I still saw similar games being played, why do you think this is? Is the ability to with hold strength a social construct that we have passed on to new generations?
4. Why is it that the girls and teachers are so easy to rebuke the boys as "men" but once they reach their growth spurt they are now seen as adult males? Does it feed the notation that physicality has to do with masculinity?
Great. Let's discuss!
ReplyDelete1) In my opinion nationality does affect a mans pride, since many people (especially men) find an identity and a strong sense of pride form their nationalities, am example of this would be the multitudes of men that claim their native countries sos proudly during the time of a world cup or olympics. My assumption would be that nationality would affect a mans masculinity simply because the man feels like he has to be an ideal masculine representative of someone from his country.
Delete2) I definitely believe the patronizing of those who haven't reached puberty would lead one to lie about their progress. Since these boys embraced a culture of comparing biological growth to popularity to their social hierarchy I'm sure the boys who weren't as developed of the others lied about their progress simply not to be ridiculed or feel excluded from their peers.
3) As a young boy I often observed and most of the times participated in these activities simply to be included in on the action. It definitely established a measurement of social status and physical ability; but at the same time most of us were in it just for the adrenaline of competing and we didnt know any better. I think most cultures have passed these activities down through stories fathers and brothers tell their sons/little brothers about violent games and activities they participated in and when the kids convene they want to compete to see who is the toughest and prove their role models that they are tough/masculine.
4) I would say it does feed into the notation of physicality having to do with masculinity, of course we know that just because someone grew it means they are now an adult.
1. I do believe that nationality does play a role in masculinity. These young boys learned the various gender roles and norms from their environment and those around them. Their nationality/place of origin teaches them what is expected from a male.
ReplyDelete2. This would definitely enable children to lie about going through puberty. Within their homo social groups, the boys would constantly try to one-up each other with their physical bodies or their comments. If an individual didn't have the traits that weren't considered manly, they would probably be bullied/pushed into a lower status within their male groups.
3. I think these games of physical strength are mainly used to show off to their male peers. I imagine that society does play a role in the perpetuation of physical strength being tied with masculinity. In a ton of media, it is often men who are using their physical strength and their bodies to overcome any hardships/obstacles.
4. I think at a younger age, the boys are easier to dismiss because of their physical size and the lack of any physical changes. They are also seen as immature as they are constantly trying to prove any sign of physical development. But once they actually hit their growth spurts, its harder to ignore the physical changes. And since their bodies show off the effects of this change, its much harder to ignore. The boys also don't partake in the physical contests of strength because their bodies can do more of the talking. This does link the physical body to masculinity, as these boys now only receive acknowledgement as men after their physical changes. But before that since they were smaller in comparison to everybody else, no body took them seriously.
1. I think nationality plays a huge part in masculinity and how each person views it. Masculinity is subjective to each culture and how it is displayed is going to be different across the board. As my previous classmate mentioned, this is all learned and each place of origin is going to teach you how to "be a man".
ReplyDelete2. For the most part, puberty is a physical manifestation presented to the public i.e you grow a beard, your voice deepens. So I'm not sure how much they can lie but I wouldn't doubt they do to an extent to seek approval.
3. I think it's to assert dominance and establish that they are not only men but strong men which is sort of a level-up. I also think it is an expectation of boys to prove their strength to other boys/men around them as well as their community.
4. I think its because girls typically go through puberty sooner so it's almost as if we are entitled to point it out or rebuke it.
1. I believe that nationality has an effect on masculinity because it plays a role in their social structure, which impacts socialization. I believe that nationality is partialy responsible for determining how gender (masculimity and femininity) are socially constructed. I believe that nationallity affects a man's pride to the dregree that pride is tied to masculenity within the culture.
ReplyDelete2. I believe that the emphasis on the physical charictaristics of puberty in the social context can entice a chid to lie about their progress in puberty, because of the pressure put on them to be in line with the expectations placed on their gender and stage of development. Boys prevelantly practice gender policing, so the pressure is strong form their peer group.
3. Physical games, like all social constructs, the practices of the generation before which are passed on to the next. Social constructs rarely change quickly, they typically take numerous generations to reconstruct.
4. I think that we do tend to rely heavily on the appearance of physical characteristics as a determining factor in assessing if one has moved from one developmental life stage to another. We count on physicall characteristics to denote the transition form infant to toddler, toddler to child, child to pre-pubecenst, pre-pubecent to teenager, teneage to adult, adult to middle age, middel age to senior.
Thisuri Fonseka
ReplyDelete1. I think it plays a major role in shaping what a man think is 'masculinity'. Every nation has different cultures and family traditions that lead to teaching what it is to be a 'man' from a young age. Therefore while there is a universal standard for masculinity, a nation will play a role in differentiating and in a way 'specify' what pride of a man is.
2. Definitely. Lying to fit into social cliques has become almost normalized in many school cultures. With teenagers going through adolescence/puberty they are at an age where fitting in is more important than anything else. Hence, I believe that lying to create and become part of certain social circles is quite common. This is also further encouraged by the media as well.
3. It is a social construct or a sort of 'tradition' that is passed down within the schools. The older student teach the games to the younger students and then they teach the incoming kids while making tweaks at the game. Showing physical strength is normal among the games as forming cliques, this is to in a way create hierarchy among friend groups or create stronger bonds.
4. Physical appearance is an easier method to note a person's growth. For most females we note puberty through our menstrual cycle and the growth of our breasts. The growth spurt is a way to tell that the boy is going through puberty and therefore ready for more responsibility. The phrase ' bear responsibility on broad shoulders" (not sure if that is right) shows that physical appearance is vital to understanding the child's maturity from a 'first look' perspective. This is not always true as age is codependent with growth spurts and mental and emotional maturity as well.
1. I do think that nationality can affect a man’s pride and masculinity. I think it can affect them because the ideals of their culture can shape their mentality, especially surrounding gender norms.
ReplyDelete2. Yes, I definitely do think these kids lie just to be more accepted from the other boys. These kids are probably already having a weird time going through puberty and they most likely do not want to be made fun of because of it.
3. I think boys in general probably just want to prove how strong they are to themselves always and so they go about this in ways where they can prove their “toughness”. I remember being in elementary and middle school and the boys would always play fight, so I think they just like to put their toughness on display.
4. I think that the example mentioned does actually feed the notion that physicality has to do with masculinity because sometimes we really don’t recognize these boys as being men until we can see it for ourselves and their physicality is the first thing that we notice about them and from that we just make assumptions on whether they are an adult or not.
1. I do not think nationality affects the boys pride, but rather they are proud of their nationality. Based on this reading there is no hierarchy of nationalities, the boys simply assume theirs to be the best. As the article states the boys often visit their countries and are raised in that culture. So i think their nationality probably does impact how they view manhood.
ReplyDelete2. I think some boys would probably be led to lie about puberty. however, puberty comes along with some noticeable changes and all the physical competitions would make it difficult for them to lie. The boys seem to judge one another based these physical competitions, not much else.
3. I also watched boys play these games when i was older and think it is a way to show strength and dominance. They view these games as a way to show they can hold up with the other boys and are just as strong, if not stronger, than the rest.
4. I do think that the teachers and girls complimenting the boys and acknowledging them as "adult males" enforces the importance of physical features. The article points out how the boys walk around confidently after undergoing noticeable physical changes. This seems to be where they get their value from. When they are younger they only hang out with boys in their social circle, boys who they can compete with and prove their masculinity to. The teachers and girls however are more focused on physical attributes. So when these physical attributes become noticeable they begin taking into account what the girls and teachers have to say as well as their male peers.
1. I think there is definitely a connection between male pride and nationality. We see this everyday, but I think a really good example could be the U.S. response during WWII. We joined WWII late and while it was on everyone’s minds, there was no effort to reinforce a response in men to want to join the military before we joined the war; however, once America joined the war advertisements were all about reinforcing a man’s pride in his nation to join the army. These advertisements that instilled pride in one’s nation banked on the power of a man’s masculinity by suggesting that “men who were real men” served in the military. I think that really did shape the masculinity of men at that time.
ReplyDelete2. Absolutely! As I read this article I recalled my own experiences in middle school and can vividly remember these boys—these exact boys—going to my school (LOL). But also now, as a substitute teacher, I sub for middle school all the time and I still see it. I think it is a phenomenon that exists because of the changes that they are living through. Even if they are not physically in the midst of pubescent change their brains are because of the language and actions around them.
3. This really does connect well to the section of reading on how the boys viewed fat. They saw a fat body as a sign that one did not have dominance over their body. I think the same goes for physical games, they know that their bodies are changing and they hope they will change into the weapons they idolize, but true masculinity is to keep the weapon (their body) in check.
4. I think the girls saw the boys from the study as “little boys” because they were also going through puberty and the boys they knew were a part of their past, a reminder of when they were children and not women. As for the teachers, honestly I think they probably see all of them as children because they are, and the teachers are full grown adults, far beyond the liminal phase of pubescence. They have experience and see these children every year with different faces. I think it might unwittingly feed the notion that physicality equals masculinity, but I think it more so reinforces that masculinity (and womanhood, for the girls who called them little boys) is an aspect of the mind. That you form your idea of these things through your experiences and while sometimes you may think you are being masculine, like the arm wrestling boys, you might actually be doing something that is not perceived as masculine by your peers, i.e. the girls saw their masculine defining games as childish.
1. I do think nationality does affect a man's pride in that for certain men their national identity could be incredibly insignificant in how they think about themselves. I think nationality affects a man's masculinity because it can give them sort of a guideline of how many men in their social circles are supposed to look like.
ReplyDelete2. I do think that for those boys who do not go through puberty as fast as other boys may have the tendency to lie in order to fit in with their peers. However, I am not sure if they all resort to lying since at one time or another, I am sure all the boys get questioned over the validity of their puberty by other boys.
3. I think that for men especially physical strength is an important quality that they value immensely, so I think that throughout time men continue to want to appear strong because that is what our society has valued and will continue to value in men for the rest of time.
4. I think the girls and female teachers can rebuke the boys before the visible signs of their puberty takes place is because these boys often times resemble children and not actual full grown men, however, once they do reach puberty their manly physical appearance asserts their development and no longer cause the people around them to view them as little kids. I do think that physicality has a lot to do with men asserting their masculinity especially since appearance can be a huge indicator for what the ideal man looks like to them.
1. I think nationality does affect a man's pride and masculinity because each culture is different so the views on this will be different as well. Depending on what the masculine culture is like, men will adhere to that and practice those traditions.
ReplyDelete2. I think those who are lacking in that area feel they do have to lie in order to avoid the ridicule. While many people will do this (not just about masculinity), I think these boys feel more compelled to lie because the ridicule they would have to face is very degrading, and since they take great pride in their masculine traits.
3. I think these games that showcase their strength is a social construct that is passed on; almost as if it is tradition for boys. Some men do not grow out of that mindset so they might teach the same thing to their kids. Such views on masculinity do not change much sometimes so that may still enforce such expectations and games.
4. I think it does feed the notation that physicality is directly related to masculinity because when teachers and girls ridicule, it is often pointed at their physicality. While they point out their behavior, they tie that back into their physical features. Looking at someone's physical state is a lot easier and obvious. Even without such comments, boys are concerned with their physicality because their physicality is part of what makes them men.
1. I think yes, but I also think it depends on the environment they grew up with because some of my guy friends do think of themselves as being the strong person to show masculinity and how men are always the one to be the one to initiate to do more to offer more to be the one that is the "man" of the house to show no emotion but then there is my other guy friends that they do not care they will show their feminine side they do not care if they are seen as "weak" for showing that side. My Hispanic guy friends who had a rough childhood do not like showing such side because they think they would be seen as weak and they did not grow in an environment that they would show feelings of such but my other friends that do not come from a Hispanic background do not care they would show their feminine and wear short shorts and they would not care if others see them like that.
ReplyDelete2. it might and it might not because some did not care they would say that as long as they had muscles their stomach did not matter.
3. I have not seen newer generations do any of these games because since times are changing so is the way they are growing back then it was way different as of now people are more flexible as to what the guys are doing and showing their masculinity the only thing that i see the most is the way they are always at the gym as to show who has more muscles and how being strong is everything.
4. I think is because since they stop looking like kids they think they should know more about things but in reality they do not and then people are mad and say how men are dumber than women but i think there is a pressure in this as to telling to grow up faster and maybe that is the reason why they act really childish because they did not have time to have fun during those times, their physical really shows much to so many people because they are like
"wow you are tall, masculine, and you got the facial going on you must be a grown up " but the truth is they are not and because of that they pretend to be.
I do think that nationality affects a man's pride. I think that nationality would affect anyone’s pride, simply because everyone is cultured by the place that they identify with. But if we are talking about men specifically, I think there is an added amount of pressure to be a certain type of masculine. Different nationalities pride themselves on different aspects of masculinity, so I think a lot of men try to be that “perfect” man to make their home or place or origin proud.
ReplyDeleteAbsolutely. I think this happens all the time, in all different parts of the world. There is so much pressure on teens and tweens to be “cool”, and since becoming a man through puberty is one of these boys main focuses in order to be cool, there has to be lies going around to keep up with the crowd.
I think that these games are something simple that are easy to access. Kids throughout all generations have been competitive with one another. This competitive nature breeds a certain sense of masculinity, so I think taking part in strength games is something that comes naturally to kids.
I think physical changes do have a lot to do with people’s perception of masculinity. People are really stuck on being able to physically see things in order to believe them. Take an injury for example. People usually don’t believe someone is really injured until they show up the next day in a cast or a sling, then there is a sort of evidence validating the injury. I think the same thing goes for masculinity, where the girls and teachers don’t believe it until they see it.
1.Yes, but it also has to do with how that male is brought up as well. Certain beliefs can stem from their childhood and from the beliefs of their parents.
ReplyDelete2. Most definitely, they want to feel accepted by other males, especially the ones that they have to compete with on who is more "manly".
3. I feel like males always have to prove that their "a man" by playing such games. I've played bloody nuckles several times in middle school. And winning a match was seen as an achievement that spread through gossip. I think it has to do with the dear of being seen as "less of a man". That's how someone got dragged into playing a game of quarters.
I think we have passed it on to the younger generation. I've heard of people going "bodies" when I was in 6th grade. Now that I am a senior in college, I still hear about 6th graders going "bodies".
4. They have growth spurts when they are going through puberty, which signifies manhood in many cultures.
1. Yes, I do think nationality affects a pride based on what country they are from and what the gender norms are in that nation. If a culture/nation believes that the ultimate proof of masculinity is providing for their family, most men are going to push towards that to show their masculinity.
ReplyDelete2. I wouldn't say that it "enables" them to lie, but I certainly think it pushes them towards it. With the peer pressure surrounding them, the easiest way to get through this point in their lives with minimal harm/embarrassment in front of their peers would be to lie.
3. I think they consider it a competition to show who is best and who is "on top" of the social hierarchy. This has been passed down through the generations from what I've seen. In many cultures it is a custom that the men are supposed to protect the women. I think this need to show how tough they are stems from social constructions based on that.
4. These physical changes are biological markers in their lives of going from children to "men." Once the girls and teachers can visually see these changes, it gives them more proof of the boys becoming men than the boys simply referring to themselves as such.
1. I think that nationality influences a mans pride and masculinity for many reasons, nationality influences a mans masculinity through culture. Different nations have different cultural customs and different ways of performing gender identify, this effects men by making them feel they need to do certain things to fit the normal of the nation their in.
ReplyDelete2.Yes, it is possible for the kids to lie about going to puberty to avoid being teased and feel peer pressure by other boys.
3. I think that physical games are to display toughness and possibly enforce gender stereotypes that men are tough and strong. I do think that it is passed through generation but it is also enforced by our surroundings, the type of culture we grow up in and how is around us.
4. I think that because many of the girls were stronger than the boys prior to their growth spurts it made it easy to dismiss the boys, I think that it does feed into the idea that physicality in related to masculinity, even in the article the boys discussed they wanted to be strong but always implied they didn't want to be fat.
“Do It For All Your Pubic Hairs”
ReplyDelete1. Do you think nationality affects a man's pride? How does it affect their masculinity?
I do think that nationality affects a man's pride as well as his masculinity. Different countries have their own distinct culture and thus handle certain situations in different ways. There are various cultures that teach young boys that the role of men is extremely different than those of women, and they must act in certain ways around different types of people. For example, men from the Dominican Republic tend to act differently from men from Japan. This is due to cultural differences. Latinx men are typically taught to be proud of their heritage, and to express that in a more outward way. Asian men are typically taught to be proud of their heritage in a much more reserved way, instead bringing pride to their culture or their family by their actions. Because the prior expression of Latinx men is more widely popular among Western culture, more reserved expressions of pride are often seen as weak or effeminate in the eyes of popular culture.
2. The way these children talk about puberty makes them view it as a right of passage into manhood, however, those who lack the "process" are made fun of, do you think this enables the kids to lie about going through puberty in order to be accepted by the other boys?
Yes, I believe that this behavior does enable kids to lie about puberty in order to be accepted by their peers. Middle school age children, ages 10 to 12, are the most impressionable and during this period of their lives, acceptance from their peers is the most important part of their lives. Since the process of puberty is so apparent, it is easy for children to get picked on; so to prevent bullying, they will lie about it.
3. Many of the physical games that contribute to "toughness" can be seen throughout the decades, when I was in school I saw the boys play these games, and when I volunteer at after school programs in HS I still saw similar games being played, why do you think this is? Is the ability to withhold strength a social construct that we have passed on to new generations?
Society’s correlation of strength and toughness with masculinity is definitely a large player in why boys and young men play these physical games. The ability to withhold strength is passed on to new generations as parents teach their children that athleticism and strength are prized over everything else. Boys learn at a young age that strong male bodies are celebrated by society, and often the age that they are exposed to these societal standards is younger and younger.
4. Why is it that the girls and teachers are so easy to rebuke the boys as "men" but once they reach their growth spurt they are now seen as adult males? Does it feed the notation that physicality has to do with masculinity?
The identification of boys as men is obviously dependent on physicality, as seen with the girls and teachers in this study. This is a result of society’s standards of what a “real man” is: someone who is strong, muscular, tall, and able to do hard labor or protect themselves, as well as those around them. This feeds into the toxic culture that is present in today’s society that shames people for not conforming to impossible body standards.